Render vs. Photo / Kitchen No. 01

0
October 23, 2012 |  by  |  Render vs. Photo

Forum newcomer and long time Cinema 4D + VRay user, Vicky Bedford (@Tickytoria), made the switch and shared her first attempt using 3ds max + VRay on the forums. Picking up on a reference found on Pinterest, Vicky went for an exact matching to start with – with great success. It seems that the transition went pretty smooth looking at the results! but then… why wouldn’t it? Modeling is not the big issue in making a visual like this, it’s all the other things that count. VRay is VRay, despite the various differences in versions. I do wonder which platform is best for modeling though?

Foreground table aside, I’d say the matching is pretty spot on, knowing that some elements were done differently on purpose. The geometry, lighting, texturing and general colors match very well to the reference image. I’d say the wooden floor is the biggest culprit shouting CG in the rendered image.

Here are both the original photo…

tumblr lxidssuknq1qmaxd5o1 1280 528x794 Render vs. Photo / Kitchen No. 01

And rendered photo-match.

KITCHENfinalFINALv2blog 528x796 Render vs. Photo / Kitchen No. 01

Second rendered viewpoint…

KITCHENnewviewfinal2v2small 528x800 Render vs. Photo / Kitchen No. 01

Visit Vicky’s Kitchen No. 01 Forum Thread.

31 comments
chamsbiz
chamsbiz

Hello , i was interrested in knowing wich one is better and i have been looking so much in forums for any discussion about that and finally i found this , for being honnest i was thinking for a quitle long time that vrayfor max is better , and i haved reasons for as i am seeing those realistic renders with vrayfor max evrywhere and in evermotion's arch models ...but as i am getting in depth with vrayforc4d  i discovred that i was wrong and ther is actully no differance between both , as a matter of fact you can take a look at the new archinteriors done with max and converted to c4d , imagees are the same no difference at all .

So i can say the problem is with cg artist working  with vrayforc4d , and maybe the number of ready sceans and object available for max  wich are huge a huge number ...

ManuelChoy
ManuelChoy

i guess its a matter of taste in terms of modelling software and also whats other things come in the package, i personally find 3d studio max to be a very good package, polymodelling tools are great and the interface is very simple in terms of workflow and with a lot a intresting modifiers! and even more if you can code. I would love to know the artist comments on the transitions between c4d to 3d max in terms of modelling.

eccowboy
eccowboy

I've been working withy sketchup for about two years or so, I am self taught, but I would like to learn techniques that I can use to better my architectural models. Can someone point me in the right direction.

Thanks,

Michael Fellman

JeffShepardson
JeffShepardson

Great job, I can only find 7 issues that gives it away

gabesas
gabesas

@kisPocok a baloldalin az ablak fénye elég árulkodó // @butcher__51 @eszement

Wsl
Wsl

Hi Ticky,

Looks really good, just a few minor mapping issues.

The end panel on one of the units is not mapped correctly as the wood grain is not continously. 

The worktop on the island has two tone colour? dark and light brown?

The floor is too clean, try using a dirt map in the reflectiongloss.

Overall very impressive, please don't take my comments as negative as its the small details that counts.

Thanks

bil2
bil2

tickytoria what a great image! congrats! 

It's a tricky question wheter the vRayC4D doesn't produce the same quality of renders as vray for 3dsmax, or is it that vray for 3dsmax just has a biger community of artists from which a few can produce top-notch images. I would say that last argument is partially the reason for the lack of extra Good C4D+vraqy images. But only partially

!I've been using cinema4D+vray for a few years and as much as I love Cinema4D and the guys over at C4DVray I have to say that by now I am fairly convinced that there is a difference between both renderers. I can notice the difference and am able to tell if the image was produced in vray for C4D or vray for 3dsmax.The difference is subtle and is really hard to explain in words. The bigest and most important difference is in light distribution on the scene. There just isn't a way to reproduce that by any setting available in vRay. I was closely checking both 3dsmax and cinema vray settings and wouldn't be able to see any different settings. But somehow the rendered image was different.And I haven't seen an C4d+vray image that would overcome this - not even one image!I would be a happy camper if I was able to say that c4dVray produces the same quality as 3dsmax vray, as I wouldn't need to switch to 3dsmax (I am in the begining stages) - personally I think C4D just is the best 3d software out there nad 3dsmax is at least 5 years behind it in terms of stability/UI/users exp/speed and so on.That's just my 2cents, hopefully nobody would take my comment to personally!thanks

tickytoria
tickytoria

Hi feed3r, I can only speak from my own personal experience learning both vray for C4D and Vray for Studio Max. C4D vray is fantastic and I have enjoyed using it for many years and will continue to use it.

What I mean't was in my opinion vray for studio max, having made the switch over, seems to have more features especially with the materials. (as you would expect with it being around for much longer) The material editior is more advanced than in C4D vray where it is more simplistic to use and feels a little limited in comparison. The settings seem very similar between the two and the workflow is pretty much the same.I personally found that there is more help online available working in vray for max as more people seem to use it for arch-viz and perhaps people are helping each other achieve further results?

The vrayforc4d forum is fantastic and I have used it a lot over the years and it has really helped me, I think as brambeau mentions most is down to the user and the depth of knowledge in using the software. It's all down to personal opinion... I have used vray for C4D for many years and have been very happy with the results but switching to max for me has helped me push my images further than I had in C4D. Perhaps this could be down to me being lazy with the software having reached a point and then not pushing myself further !? I imagine this is a topic that many people would argue from either side.

For now I am enjoying the challenges of learning vray for max but I certainly won't be giving up on vray for C4D anytime soon! :-) Both are incredible and as Ronen says Vray is Vray despite the various differences in versions.

pickfordj
pickfordj

@Tickytoria very very nice work

feed3r
feed3r

Hi ticky, 

I'm wondering how the v-ray for 3dsmax is better than the vrayforc4d (besides not having the latest core with all of its features), because I feel the same that people with the real v-ray tend to create better images using pretty much the exact same workflow as people with vrayforc4d.

So what do you think? Does it just create better images due to the latest core or can you name the settings etc. that make it better?

anwar522
anwar522

Gr8 Visualz quality . 

The only thing which catches the attention is the saturated floor .Though i really like it :) 

Good Job @tickytoria

tickytoria
tickytoria

Thanks guys! I agree Ronen the floor is the biggest give away I really struggled with it... mine has too much contrast in the wood grain and doesn't look real enough.

I also think Vray for Studiomax is so much better and more in-depth I think you can get much better results out of it than in C4D. The modelling in studiomax is very intuitive too, it just feels a bit slow at the minute (as I'm still getting up to speed) and I was previously using Vectorworks and exporting into C4D which is so easy to use and very accurate for architectural modelling.

Daveybot
Daveybot

Whoops - I forgot to say, brilliant visualisation work!

Daveybot
Daveybot

Oooh, I got it right!

It was the exposure that was the tell, for me. That dark corner at the back of the kitchen worktop, and the outside scene through the doors - not even the best HDR is going to play nice with those extremes. Also the reflectiveness of the paint on the right hand wall, and the perfect shape of that basil plant - suspiciously clean and tidy!

I honestly never get tired of this game, and find the discussions it raises are always full of interest. Composition, metering, choice of subject, the idea of 'prefection' in imagery and representation - all rich subjects, and ones I love getting in to.

JeffShepardson
JeffShepardson

Make that 8. 1) The wood beams on the ceiling in the rendered has a high gloss towards the door. These beams should have a very dull reflection for the paint is matte. 2) the blocks in the corner of the wood beams are to perfectly square compared to the picture, they really stand out. 3) The vent over the stove gives off a reflection to the left on the wood, should be a shadow. 4) The light coming through the door on the floor should be more blurry, this is very sharp and in a straight line. 5) The light coming through the door is also reflecting only on the picture on the wall, in the photograph it reflects 1/2 way down the wall. 6) The refrigerator's reflection is way too high. 7 and 8)The biggest give away is the ceiling lights, the wires on the lights are fairly thick and appear to stop directly at the plank in the ceiling. There are junction boxes for the wires but do not look attached. lastly the there is something about the lights glass domes, that I just can't put my finger on, I would guess the IOR is off. The domes have an almost cartoony look to them. Just a few minor adjustments and this render would be perfect.

lllab
lllab

@feed3r hi, both versions, max and c4d uses the same core and render ident (Vray 2.3 core atm), featurewise 3dmax has of course yet some more features, thats clear, it exist many years longer.  -stefan (vrayforc4d)

lllab
lllab

V_Ray on C4D uses the identical core (V-Ray 2.3) and renders identical as the max version. the max verisn has yet some more features as it exist a lot longer. the renders are identical.

Stefan

feed3r
feed3r

@JeffShepardson Thanks for pointing that out. I'm pretty much on your side, it's all in the details. For me, the lamp's glass shader is not off, it's the model itself being too round at the upper half.

Nonetheless a great result. The really good thing is, that we're only able to point these "lacks" out just because it is so well matched, I guess.

feed3r
feed3r

@lllab @brambeau  Thanks guys. I'm pretty much on the same level als the raumgleiter-crew and of course I'm convinced that it's the artist that matters and not the renderer. Nontheless I miss that little percentage in quality which might just be the fact that there's no artist working with vrayforc4d who is as skilled as some of the great 3ds-artists.

I just wondered why @Tickytoria said that she feels that the 'real' v-ray is better than vrayforc4d. 

tickytoria
tickytoria

@lllab @feed3r @brambeau Stefan I'm a she.... ha ha real name Vicky ;-) hard to believe I know! Feels like I'm the only female working in this industry! Where are all the women?? 

lllab
lllab

@feed3r @lllab @brambeau i guess ticky means that 3d max has more features yet, as it is many yours older (he wrote that on his AO log page too). all vray versions are real by the way, some younger, some older.

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