It was really useful.thanks Ronen. because of the public belief in here ( most of clients are not interested in getting to know our work process) I used to omit this part from my works,even explaining 2 or 3 minutes.but as u said it is needed.I shall pay more attention.
Fantastic article - thanks for posting it. I've just moved back to the UK from NZ where, at least in smaller towns, trying to get paid (and paid sensibly) for creative work was like pulling teeth. I'm now happily working for an arch vis studio at the upper end of the market and rather pleased to see things better in the UK.
@DaveInScotland Don't we know it. Our firm has been operating in Auckland, NZ for nearly 8 years now and nothing has changed. The market here is very small and the cost of building is ridiculous but thats another story. We are hopeful that things will eventually pick up here. Good to hear that things aren't that bad elsewhere.
Good article indeed. I've been working for 5 years as a freelancer and realized that there are only 2 types of clients: those who understand and those who never will. You can usually tell the difference from the first contact. I've tried hard to explain what is that I do to those clients and especially what are they paying for, but with no success. They usually can't tell the difference between graphic design, web design and 3d. They see the difference but still think it takes the same amount of time/knowledge/resources to make any of those thus it should be sold at the same price!
The example of Digital Mirage Studio is very good, just missing the more complicated the invoice you pagenregards
I guess although people thinks our profession is 100% "visual" is more like an iceberg. There´s "Much more Than meets The eye". Really nice post Ronen. Regards from Beauty and The Bit
wow, i really like this article!
handling your client is indeed a science in itself. as mentionend by some people before trust is one of the most important thing. also very important is communicating as transparent as possible: in some cases it is just ok sending a screenshot instead of only high-polished images. i've read some really true sentence the other day: 'better do something with flaws than nothing perfect' - means: involving the client as early as possible into you process makes things a lot easier.
you possibly would never get into the need of saying 'no' because the client knows if he wants you to do this one last-minute-change the on-time-delivery would be in danger.
the most important thing to me possibly is giving the client the feeling that YOU are helping HIM to create the image he has in mind - not the other way round. So i think it is not that important that the client knows everything about your work - it is more that he sould know that you do this to make him happy :)
i know this animation by pure and somehow i find it dangerous putting cut-out furniture onto the image which then -taadaa- morph into 3d models. actually i made the experience that someone might think that 'you simply put this photo into your computer and then it is in your image?' this basically is that kind of misinformation which in the end leads to the total opposite of what i have written above
all the best
And yes I left the y of they but this is a video to sell the Digital Mirage brand.
Same goes for the rest of this article, doesn't anybody proof read this stuff?
@Softminimal Yes, I do. You probably wanted to use the word Sentence instead of Sentience down below ;)
I watched the Digital Mirage clip and the can't even get the final sentience to read correctly.
"Much magic is put in every of our work"
Great post! I find that no matter how many times I explain my process and workflow to clients, and how the project will develop in stages, they will still look at an early draft and say "What? This isn't photorealistic!!" <sigh>
This is a short film, which we did some years ago to explain your customer what we do. Hope you like it? http://vimeo.com/19696403
@MatthiasArndt Nice reel there :)
Sometimes i just think about having the client sitting next to me to see what goes behind the scenes, so they could see it goes beyond than just clicking buttons and the "computer doing all of the work". I do try to give them a taste of what we go through by having a meeting and doing small changes they want to do, that way they can understand a tiny bit on the process. But i do agree we are the ones that have to open their eyes and show them about the time it takes to do things.
My 2 cents, great post, and excellent work really very inspiring, the big point for me is Who is your client, now I am employed but before I worked as freelancer and I had a little of everything, so for a person with money to build that can hire anybody, you need to explain every little thing, a video like the last from Digital Mirage or the one posted by TedVitale are perfect, the other's one are good for Tech savvy people, showing color appear, object moving around the scene, the people don't know how the heck happens plus the video does not show "time" that is one of the main point to base your fees. The other videos only show really nice and fluid click here, click here, we are the only ones that know how long it take, so that why for me a honest talk and maybe a video like the one mentioned above help to sell your service. for me is like the dilemma "who should write the instructions" the engineer or the publicity director that know how to communicate with graphics but does not know the product.
Engineers, and architects, they already use 3D software, most architects know how to do renders so the only thing to deal with them is time and price.
Our office just finished a short that we submitted to the Dallas Complete Streets Visual Essay Contest. While it was specific to the project, I feel it also shows a pretty clear picture of what we do as designers in the firm and specifically in regards to how we approach our visualization process. Its a great tool for getting a process quickly and clearly explained to a client. http://vimeo.com/30687266#at=0
@TedVitale This is a great example! Thanks for sharing here ;)
I also would like to say I love to see other peoples process and approaches, and this was a great read while waiting on my current visualization project to reboot after a crash :/
Here’s a video we did 2 years ago, to show clients how we work: http://vimeo.com/8969761 It's a bit long and doesn't have a fancy soundtrack, but it gives a good impression of all the different stages.
We divide a job in 2 or 3 different stages. First we build the model and show our client the viewing angle for the image we're making. At this stage they can change it till they're happy with the angle. The we put all the materials/textures/colours on the model, and send them a new version of the image. This version will be checked by the architect most of the time. If all materials are approved we come in the final stage, like adding humans etc.
About clients not interested in how we work. Yes sometimes clients really believe all we do is press a button and out comes the image. Especially when the want to change something in the image (change the angle a bit, if your almost finished...) But if clients come visit us, and I'm able to show how we work, they find it very interesting to see. That doesn't change the fact that they want the best image for the lowest price, but don't we all want that? So always be clear to your clients about the way you work, and explain from the start that, for example, changing an angle if you almost finished will cost extra time and thus money.
In most cases, yes. But there will always be some people who won't accept that these presentations are not real-time.....that's my experience anyway.
Wouldn't that help with them appreciating the true effort of creating an image? making the pay better perhaps?
Some great tips and examples, but time-laps videos could exacerbate matters when it comes to those clients who think CG artists just push a few buttons and produce 3D renders in a few minutes.
I still think that most clients really just don't care about what it takes to make "pretty pictures"
I've found that most clients tend to just want their product to look good, be on time and be on budget!For me the best way is to have a very good briefing before you start with the project. Try to explain the client in a way they understand why it's not......"it should be easy to do on a computer!"Try to involve your client to work with you on the whole process, modeling, lighting, texturing (wich in some cases the most difficult process!). Sometimes you have to say 'no” it's not easy, and is usually impossible if you cant afford to say no.Related about this issue (but for web design)http://theoatmeal.com/comics/design_hell
@vizcon3d This link is So true of what Clients do .
@vizcon3d Great link about the Webdesign aspect!
@vizcon3d I would say just skip the "They Don't Care How..." and just show it! I feel that seeing things like those I've showcased here will go a long way in solving the "It should be easy to do on a computer"... when they are actually saying it should be cheap since it is easy doing on a computer.
Seeing such a presentation from a 3d artist prior to work approval says something about him, the process and what they should expect and provide during the process.
i don't have the feeling our clients wanna know how we make those images/renderings
they want good-looking images at a certain price and even that is subjective,
they want images/renderings that
let them build things, win competitions, that convince third parties.
our images are just a step towards get that building off the ground.
@bmd While they might seem not interested, or just feel they know it all already... They might be off-base. Again - this is most relevant to the clients you do not have yet.
All things being the same - as a client seeing such a pitch by a 3d artist will make me more confidant to take him on for my upcoming competition... Don't you think so?
i don't belief this, the architect in charge is interested in images that let him win the competition, yes the guys on the "work floor" who make the drawings and models they are interested and ask how did you make this?
but the people in charge are interested in images that let them build those buildings. And those images don't even have to be photo real or in some cases nice or good-looking : http://www.archdaily.com/281332/national-art-museum-of-china-oma/national-art-museum-of-china-12-copyright-oma/
it's not that our (bmd) clients are in the dark on how we make those images. On the contrary we really explain all the steps, those steps are even in our tender. But that's not what gives us clients, i think with competitions it even might scare clients because one of the first things a new client always asks is how much freedom does he have to keep changing the design before the deadline? i think they find it more important that can do those last minute designchanges, how you make those last minute change is not important, in psd or re-render they don't care.
btw we only work for architects/engineers and 90% of our jobs are competitions, they are still designing when we start making those images. Maybe it's different when you work for developers and the building design is 90% ready
trust is everything certainly with competitions and trust is difficult to win (but easy to lose).
(new) clients need to start trusting you, i don't think you win their trust with a nice video about how you made those images, you win their trust by showing them references of projects but the best way is to win projects/competitions, that always attracts new clients
@bmd @ronenbekerman There is a lot of trust and probably reputation for delivering wining results in a competition visualization scenario. The ongoing ability to make changes is key factor in such works - I know ;) Exactly what I would try to fit in a pitch for a client.
Just the process showcase alone will not land you the job... this is not what I hinted. I do think it can play a big role though... That along with the Cost, Schedule, Quality of Work, Connections you have, The reputation you built to date and pure luck too ;)
Great post, I think showing the process is very important, and in many different creative fields. The last video is by far my favorite, it's engaging and really tells a clear story about the work process.
Wow Some really good videos . Thanks Ronen for bringing up this topic of work .
I got a similar case to many other Artist's whom i know and the Biggest problem what i face is Time . Here in Middle East we have clients who Don't really care about the highest level of Quality , all what they want is something really quick and even the Draft render at High Res for them they will be really happy for that . People around have made this work really cheap & quick which ends them to see Crappy renders at low rate Which makes there work satisfying .Looking for High - End work on Freelance basis is really tough now which even goes the companies over here . Well known companies also hire people which produce low-quality renders & have Horrible Presentation .
I really wish people understand this soon of what we really want to produce for there works/properties and for our Satisaction .
I would love to have your ideas on how to tackle this,.
I face this issue all the time, it is a really tricky market in deed, what I learned with the time is forget about your ego (the good ego ;)) and your willing to create a master piece of each of your work and just think practical. Some of those clients are not savvy on CAD drafting or blue prints so that's why they relies in a rendering to see the project, choose colors and so.
if they want something really quick Sketchup will be your best friend, model it, apply basic material, give a nice camera angle and you are gold. If they want more, well then price change and delivery time can be adjusted usually they understand that way.
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